Accounting Strategies for Functional Medicine Practitioners - Derrick Espadas

“You have enough things coming at you from all directions and you're worried about so many things. The last thing you need is your accountant saying, well, it needs to be this and I need this and go do this for me.” - Derrick Espadas

In this webinar:

Functional medicine providers and other holistic healthcare practitioners, we have a special treat for you! We're featuring a discussion with Derrick Espadas, an accountant who is getting his PhD in healthcare models and consumer behaviors. That's right - an academic focused on driving behavior change in patients - AND he's an accountant! Take a look at your business accounting through a PhD candidate's point of view and learn some tricks to calm the overwhelm of being a clinician and a business owner.

Outline

Introduction to today’s episode.

0:01

Derek’s introduction to this episode.

1:08

Partnered approach vs. prescriptive approach.

10:01

How to create a chart of accounts.

13:29

The importance of depreciation in taxes.

16:30

How much time are you spending on social media?

23:10

How do you know that you need help?

27:19

Finding the root cause of a problem.

33:58

The first step to forming a business.

40:25

Transcript:

Jennifer Wenzel  0:01  

Hey everybody, welcome to the root cause marketing webcast, we are so excited today we have a really neat guest who knows that accounting might not be the most exciting topic in the world. But we all know that it is incredibly important for functional medicine and health care providers. So we're featuring today a discussion with Derek Espadas, and he is an accountant by trade. He's also on the campus right now of Case Western University right on the border of Cleveland Clinic, you can see the clinic campus from his vantage point where he sits right now. He's getting his PhD at Case Western in health care models and consumer behaviors. So he has an academic focus focused on driving behavior change in patients. And as we know, in functional medicine, that is one of the key tenets of the reason that everyone does this work. So we're interviewing Derek and a live stream right here on Facebook and YouTube. We're also recording it. So feel free to watch this recording when we're done. And I'll hand it over to Derek so that he can tell you a little bit more about himself in his own words. Hi, Derek.

Derrick Espadas  1:08  

Hi, thanks for having me. Funny thing today, when I came to class, I mentioned that I was doing this podcast. And people immediately just started shouting, oh, my goodness, I love functional medicine, it has changed my life. My mother changed her lifestyle. You know, all these stories just started coming out of the woodwork. But like you mentioned, changing that behavior and even mentioned that everything depends on changing the behavior. But a lot of people here were so excited to hear about this and excited to share their stories as well. So there's a lot of people out there that are yearning for medicine, we just need to get those pathways opened up a little bit more!

Jennifer Wenzel  1:49  

And that's our job to help those providers to find their patients. And so patients choose functional medicine over the traditional allopathic conventional processes. So thank you. Landy, would you like to kick us off here?

Landy Miyake  2:09  

Yes. So Derek is going to visit with us today about basic accounting strategies and processes that functional medicine providers can implement into their own practices to make that whole numbers managing, all of that, hopefully a little bit easier to stay on top of, or at least maybe more manageable on a level for you. So we're really excited to hear his pro tips on that. So we're all yours.

Derrick Espadas  2:46  

Well, one of the things that I really love about the functional medicine space that really aligns, which has been an entrepreneur, so entrepreneurs in any industry are those willing to take a risk, and say, I'm going to be different. And those working in functional medicine, really, if you kind of think of the system of healthcare, are taking a chance by saying, I want to do something different, because that's what speaks to my heart. And so they're, they're off on their own. So they're, they're having that risk taking that that kind of drives them. And it can be scary, you know, let's face it, we both have businesses, and entrepreneurial space can be a little scary. And I like to tell clients, you're exactly where you're supposed to, you know, if you have that little bit of fear in you, you're exactly where you're supposed to be, I have to remind myself of that as well. Sometimes, when you're just having one of those days, like it's just keep moving forward. So in functional medicine, because you are kind of going off the path from the normal medical practice, you know, we were talking a little bit about this beforehand, a lot of the accounting work is going to be about processes, you know, when you're going off on your own, setting up those processes ahead of time. And it's just like when you're doing your healthcare work, like you just don't see people out of nowhere, you just don't start stabbing in the dark about possible, you know, modalities to treat something. If you can have a process in place, things are going to go a lot more smoothly, which is going to make yourself happy. As a health care practitioner, it is very important to think about yourself as well, not just helping others take care of yourself. Your patients, your clients are going to feel that they're going to feel that energy and that wonderfulness of you're gonna enjoy the experience. And, you know, there's a lot of profit in happiness. So from the business perspective, why do all that work to just be miserable? So having that good feeling at the end of the day, both emotionally and financially is really what I hope for for some of the clients that I work with. So as far Here's the process, I always like to start off with, what is your vision? And that seems like a very non accounting thing you usually don't get asked by your account, what is your vision? But really, it helps you find what direction you're going to want to move in? Why are you doing these things? Maybe you are in it for the money. All right, let's focus on that. Maybe you just want to make just enough money and a little bit extra. So you can, you know, just do what you want to do and have some freedom. I, I recently just had a client where we talked about what is your vision for the future? And she said, I kind of want to just make a little bit extra money. Like, I'm not interested in being huge, I'm not interested in having more thoughts and processes thrown on me, I'm fine. Let's do that. Let's just make sure that the bank account is positive. And let me know when you want to take a trip. Yeah, just really finding out why people want to do what they do helps, so that we know what oh, there we go, we're back. So that we know, you know, it does no good to start setting up accounts and doing all that accounting stuff, and planning for large revenues. And if that's not what the client wants my client, you know, that's what is wanted in life. And so we start with that vision. And then we can start seeing how to create those processes. And you know, the processes are really going to be different for everyone, but really starts with what we call a chart of accounts. So from an accounting perspective, a chart of accounts is every category that we can put something into. And for some companies, it's as simple as money in, money out. In other companies, it's very detailed. And it's really gonna depend on the client, like, how much information do they want back, the more accounts we have, the more information I can provide back to see, this is what's being sold, this is what's going out. This particular part of your practice is where the money's coming in, you know, I had a client that did therapeutic massages. And after a little research and a couple of experiments to really try to get her revenue up. We discovered that in that industry, really, it's the post massage products. That's where the money is. Now she was very specific, that she did not want her products to just be anything, had to be all natural, holistic, she had to believe in it. And so we just did a search for those kinds of products that aligned with what she wanted to do. She was also very conscious that she did not want to price gouge her clients. So created an appropriate margin where she could make money and still serve the clients that needed her. And so going through that process, seeing what in your particular industry in healthcare, because there's a bunch of different segments to healthcare, like what's what's the revenue generator, it's not always the healthcare given any practice.

Jennifer Wenzel  8:02  

And in functional medicine, I know there are some other costs or, you know, revenue avenues besides just the one on one patient care. Along with being able to offer products and supplements, there are the lab tests, for example, yet, you know, I mean, lab testing is so key to functional medicine. And that can be a profit center as well. So I'm assuming you would set up a chart of accounts for each of those potential services product that a functional medicine provider could offer.

Derrick Espadas  8:29  

Yeah, and also, if you're aligned with a particular lab, or have some kind of partnership, the charts, Chart of Accounts gets a little more complicated. Whether you're working with employees versus contractors, you don't definitely want to separate all that out. But you want to sit down with whoever is taking care of your books and discuss those items. Unfortunately, you had a recent experience helping out a client where their former bookkeeper dictated everything that they were supposed to do. And if you know, I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do the awkward trying to come compare bookkeeping to healthcare. It's just like, if your doctor told you what to do, and didn't ask questions, you know, they were saying, This is what we'd like, this is what we want. And they were told no, you know, I immediately told them, like, I, I work for you, like, This is My reasoning for why things should change. This is okay, if you keep it if that makes you comfortable. Keep it like we can always not use it. Like it's not a big deal. So really leaving things open, especially, especially when you're new in your practice. Like you have enough things coming at you from all directions and you're worried about so many things. The last thing you need is your accountant saying, well, it needs to be this and I need this and go do this for me. Like

Jennifer Wenzel  9:51  

I do have to say the first time I've ever heard anyone in accounting or financial management say no big deal we can is

Landy Miyake  10:01  

different from me? Yes. And that's exactly. And actually, this is a really great point. For me to mention. This is just the two, I mean, the two things that he's talked about in what the first 10 minutes, right is, you know, asking what the vision is. And then from there, he creates, like, his process into how he is going to work in this collaborative, it sounds like relationship, and being, of course, playing the the bookkeeper accounting role, of course, but then also kind of, you know, being a business strategy leader, yep, a business leader in that regard. And the strategist as well as support. And so I think that's incredible, I think that really separates you hugely, enormously from the pack, which is also why, you know, we're partnering with you because, you know, your values are more in alignment with us. And that, you know, it is about doing what's best for the client. And that's going to look different to every single person, because, you know, their knowledge base is different, their comfort level is different, their goals, and everything about it is different. 

Jennifer Wenzel  11:24  

And so I just want to say, you know, we really appreciate that perspective and can't, can't wait to hear more, really, it's a really partnered approach versus a prescriptive approach. 

Derrick Espadas  11:29  

Well, it's, you know, I think, for me, like I could be working for Deloitte or KPMG, or one of the huge accounting firms, I like to think I like to think that way. But like, that's not the lifestyle I want. What I want is to connect with people and work with people that want to connect with people, or actually, so tomorrow, I will actually be in a class here called flourishing corporate America, which is about making those changes. One of the books we're reading is called capitalism on fire. And it's about taking those risks and chances to change the world. I want to live in a world and specifically with healthcare, you know, I sent you over a little blurb or so it's like, for a long time, I didn't go to the doctor, I did not like going to the doctor, I didn't like being around, I didn't like the experience, I opted to be sick and unhealthy. Instead of going through that process, I want to see a process where people get excited, where they say, Oh, my goodness, I get to take the day off, or not even get to take the day off. Like, you know, I'm just at this place and they have a doctor, let's let's change the world. And so functional medicine practitioners, to me, are that base layer for the disruptors in the healthcare industry, but want to see them do well. However, how, you know, my background is financial and strategy. So if I can help them that way, you know, that's what I can do. They're the healthcare experts, I'm not going to try to be healthcare experts. So I go to them, because they have that expertise, delivered in a way that's preferable for my tastes.

Jennifer Wenzel  13:12  

Wonderful. So let's talk about more strategies and processes that disruptive functional medicine providers can do to make sure that their businesses are as thriving financially, as they are, you know, from a patient provider standpoint.

Derrick Espadas  13:29  

Yeah. So one of the things also to keep in mind is whether or not you're working with agencies, so there's particular accounting that they're going to dictate, and there is not much room around it. So if you're working with insurance, that's what you're going to do. If you're taking any other kind of payment, cash is taking checks or whatever, you definitely want to create what's going to work for you if you're doing cash or check you want again, a process who's taking the money to the bank, who's counting it? Is there more than one person counting it? And especially when you're hiring people, like we all want to work with friends, we all want to trust each other. But there's always stories of so and so's of the money. So it's something as simple as just having two people know what's going on.

Jennifer Wenzel  14:13  

It's easy to miscount it anyway. I mean, it could be completely unintentional and completely I mean, I have certainly miscounted money before and been like where did it all go recounted it

Derrick Espadas  14:26  

Especially when it's five minutes till five and so and so just wants to get home, you know, like, you just want to rush through and be done with it, especially if they're telling you because you should deposit if you're, you're taking cash and checks you should deposit everything. Right and there's a special little thing called undeposited funds that we put in your chart of accounts. Don't need to worry about it. It's just just so you are aware it just means that you have the money. It's not in the bank and then you'll whoever's taking care of your books will make that change one thing so there is a slight difference on that. Usually everybody kind of wonders what's this weird thing other weird things we use it all the time to is this account called suspense.

Jennifer Wenzel  15:09  

Okay. It sounds like a type of book that I'd like to read - suspense.

Derrick Espadas  15:14  

I'm doing the pause, I'm building suspense. It's where we put things that we don't know. So let's just say there was something that came in, I don't know what it is, before I can talk to a client, I'll put it in suspense so that it's aware. Now on my own processes, I think it's the 25th of the month, I don't let anything go past the 25th, where I'm contacting clients saying, like, I have this transaction, I have no idea. I have this, that it can be categorized by the end of the month, everything can be okay. So those are usually the two things that pop up that clients do take a look at, because I'm glad they're taking a look at their chart of accounts and saying, What's this thing? Anything else that they're asking questions is usually something that's not needed for the business. So like QuickBooks, and nit, and in Xero, will do an automatic chart of accounts. And a lot of it's kind of set up for like, huge, like GE or Amazon a lot of stuff on there, don't need it like, and that's why we would talk and go through the processes and see what we can take away because a lot of times people will open up their chart of accounts, and they should, and they're like, no, what is all this stuff? Why do I need to do this and that and it's just, we'll just hide that for now. You don't need to worry about that. If you're ever bringing in 80 billion in revenue, we'll bring it then we'll hold off. And then I think another thing that's important too, is depreciation. Okay, so are you familiar with depreciation,

Jennifer Wenzel  16:45  

I believe that is when you have equipment that you can sort of count against your taxes, the purchase price of it, or the value of it, after a year to a certain point that decreases until it doesn't have any value anymore. I'm gonna

Derrick Espadas  16:57  

I'm gonna stay quiet. Now you're in charge with Tony

Jennifer Wenzel  17:01  

was thinking way back by Business Administration.

Derrick Espadas  17:06  

So we hear about things like, you buy a car. And as soon as they're off the lot, it depreciates. So in your personal life, depreciation is back, right, because the value of the car goes away. In business, it's good. And as a healthcare professional, I'm sure there's equipment that has to be bought that should be depreciated. And all depreciation is we're going to, we're going to take usually, and it's usually with larger price items. So let's just say we bought something for 10,000, we're going to split that up over 10 years, and every 10 years, we're going to deduct that value against the money we made. And it kind of acts like a little tax break every, every year, we'll take the same. And there's other complicated methods on it and new tax laws that just say just take the whole thing off at the front of it. But usually, we want to depreciate that over time.

Jennifer Wenzel  18:00  

Does that take into account then like inflation, or the you know, the declining value of current money and all that stuff? Or no,

Derrick Espadas  18:09  

it does not. So we're just gonna, the simplest way, is what we call a straight line. So we're just splitting that $10,000 up equally. We could do double declining, we can do so in taxes. It's called makers, and it's a whole 15 pages of charts. Straight lines. Well, and it's also depending on the type of equipment and buildings so you can depreciate buildings can depreciate land and livestock. 

Jennifer Wenzel  18:44  

So, I want my functional medicine practitioner to have a clinic goat to come greet me.

Derrick Espadas  18:51  

You can depreciate that over seven years. So yeah, depreciation is great. I actually teach a depreciation lecture. It's called for everything you do for me, I do appreciate you. Because a lot of accounting, Joe, oh, never said any of them were good. But that's, that's really what as a health care practitioner, functional medicine practitioner that you want to be looking at. The rest of the accounting is keeping in touch with whoever's handling your accounting. I know for myself, I send out little reminders like, let's review your books. Let's or and, and I'll even suggest going to someone else to have your books checked out. Like let's just make sure that I made a mistake once back in like 2012. So let's make sure that doesn't happen again.

Jennifer Wenzel  19:57  

If you know, it could happen every 10 years. So you know You made one last year and yeah,

Derrick Espadas  20:02  

so no one's picked up on it yet. That's okay. But it's also like, that's one of the other things I've learned is like not to get defensive about anything. Like, when someone says, Hey, I'm gonna, can you send this information over to this other other firm, I'm not sure. Like, thinking like, let's double check, like, let's make sure I might learn something from that other firm. And so, you know, even like this, this month, I'm sending out notices to people that I don't normally do taxes. But I know people who do that are amazing at it. And so let me connect you with the ones I trust. And so building a network, you know, not only for your own business, but building that network out of knowing who are the trusted professionals, you know, the attorneys and so like, along with probably in the vein of processes, I would say, and usually healthcare practitioners start off with a staff. I usually say in any industry, say when you get to five employees, do what you do best. outsource your accounting, outsource your marketing, outsource, whatever you can outsource. So that you can do what you do, so that you're not looking at QuickBooks late at night, that you can just focus on what you do. Let the other stuff be done by professionals that do that really well. And so

Jennifer Wenzel  21:27  

I work with a functional medicine chiropractor who still does her own janitorial work, she finally just started outsourcing janitorial in her office. And yeah, it's like, oh, there's so many more things that you can contribute to that your skills need to bring to the world. So I'm glad to finally have decided to take that leap, and hire someone to help with that for us.

Derrick Espadas  21:49  

We were actually so we just, they feed us here, which is nice. We were just actually having lunch and speaking with the campus librarian, and she was making the argument that Why are you searching for articles on your own and taking 30 minutes a day, when I can do it for you in five minutes. And she had us calculate how much we were saving financially, she's like, you can be doing your work. And it's about a $10,000 difference if I've heard of her doing the work for free, that's including all this amazing tuition rather than do it ourselves. And when we can be doing something else. So it's the same thing, you know, marketing, accounting, even HR benefits, which get really weird and crazy. And, you know, the HR benefits are one of the best ways to keep employees or to show them that you care and tax write offs. So always, always good to love those tax write offs.

Jennifer Wenzel  22:50  

So how would you estimate just let's just take a gross income of $150,000 for a young, functional medicine provider who's doing all their own bookkeeping, and tax preparation, you know, how many hours would you say an average person who's literally, you know, a solo provider working with one other person? How much time are they spending? Or should they be spending for apps?

Derrick Espadas  23:15  

That I mean, the cost of doing all that stuff is probably going to be good, it's going to be less than what they can do. Setting up another appointment? Yeah.

Jennifer Wenzel  23:25  

I mean, I'm spending several hours on it a month at least. And

Derrick Espadas  23:29  

yeah, and when you present that question, I'm not even thinking financially. I'm thinking about them being at a desk just being like, oh, like, why, why do that when you can outsource it at cheaper, what you charge. So you can pull it up, bring in another patient or go home early and enjoy the family, like, be happy, have, you know, the marketing, like I know so many people that are like, I'm gonna do my own Facebook, and then I look at their Facebook and I'm like, get someone to do it, or

Jennifer Wenzel  24:06  

it's not looking super great, right?

Derrick Espadas  24:09  

Like content marketing, and I've tried to do it on my own, and I can. It's not what I want to do. And it's tedious and it takes up time. And so again, to that point of like, I can be doing the accounting and having someone else do the content marketing and be able to do it a bit better. And stay on top of everything like I've done the Google SEO classes, I'm done. Like I don't, but it doesn't stop like it doesn't.

Landy Miyake  24:39  

Yeah,

Derrick Espadas  24:41  

picking what we're good at. And doing that and saying hey, why don't you do that thing that you're great at? I really don't want to do it, and that's the big thing. I don't want to do a lot of that stuff. And some things like the health care provider there. It's super special. I was like, I can't just go out and be a healthcare provider, the lawyers, so very important to have a lawyer in health care. That's usually where a lot of costs come from. So having that trusted attorney, so again, to the networking, you know, talk to people who they're using, who do they trust, that's the big thing, who's going to who's going to take a phone call? And not just start the clock? So when I was working for other companies, you know, we, there were certain clients that we were told, like, when they call they're on the clock. You know, and it was to keep them on the phone. Oh, my. Yeah. 

Jennifer Wenzel  25:41  

So like a 900 Number gambit, as long as possible, because they're being charged 495 a minute.

Derrick Espadas  25:47  

Are you lonely at night, call in and talk to me.

Jennifer Wenzel  25:52  

They'll talk to you for an hour and

Derrick Espadas  25:56  

finding the people that I think you mentioned like that you want to, like, Who do you want to talk to at the end of the day, even when it's bad? I have a client that does health care, like machines, what is it - TENS machines, love, love those machines. And with the, you know, with the pandemic, and everything, they took a big hit in their business. And he said, one of the best things was we talked about finances. And then at the end, I said, Okay, let's put the numbers aside. Let's talk about your feelings. And he's like, Oh, my goodness, thank goodness, let's do this. You know, building that relationship where I have clients that are going to talk about feelings. You don't think about talking about feelings with your accountant. But let's talk about feelings like how are you having a bad day? Why are you having a bad day? Is this just one thing? Or is this a long term occurrence in your business that we need to pay attention to? And where does it come from? Okay, your p&l statement looks good, I'll see you in a month. Let's talk about what's going on. And he talked about family and like, trying to get things in order and how they were behind. And, and what I noticed a lot of times with clients, especially newer ones, there seems to be this sense of shame. Like I should be doing better, I should have known. And it's like, No, you shouldn't. How would you have known? You know, it's amazing that you're leaping into this new business? You wouldn't you don't know? Like, I only know because I grew up in a family business. And I went to fancy business schools that I can't afford. So let me be that person that guides you in that? You did, yeah, this dream.

Landy Miyake  27:46  

Right. Exactly. And that's why we have to lean on the experts. You know, that's what they love to do. And that's what they're good at. So that is a great segue into my next question for you, as far as you know, leaning on those people. I mean, is your recommendation that you know, brand new functional medicine providers just starting out, but that is something that they outsource right away, so that they can stay in their zone of genius work on the, you know, fundamental business building activities that they need to do that, that would be something that, you know, they could maybe they could plan to outsource from the get go right away. Not wait until they're making, you know, X amount of income, would you recommend that

Derrick Espadas  28:40  

I would recommend it based on their employees. Now, what I do recommend, specifically for functional practitioners, just like any business, your one is going to be horrible. Like you are going to bleed money. Sorry, but that's exactly what's going to happen. You're too good, slightly bleeding. Yeah, yeah, we got the tourniquet on. You stopped bleeding, you might lose an arm, but you know, the bleeding stuff,

Jennifer Wenzel  29:12  

not the arm and the leg.

Derrick Espadas  29:14  

And that's just normal business. And it's difficult because there's probably student loans involved and just trying to keep your head above water. But, so if you can, and that's why it's important to kind of assemble a team. So accounting, insurance, legal, and a trusted team. So spend some time and talk about those processes and what you want to do, what's that vision and talk with these trusted people of whether you should hire sooner. One of the research components that I do a lot with healthcare is customer service. And so one of the things that we identified in that customer service is that person that's up front desk, really has a huge effect on how a patient feels. But a lot of times that person has so many duties, they're flying around, they just hand you the clipboard, fill it out, gone, you need someone up front to be that friendly face, and to make people feel welcome and warm, and give him the warm fuzzies. And that makes such a huge difference. So there's, in part of that process, you know, and setting up those processes is realizing you have to pay out money, you're gonna have to pay employees, you know, like, are you renting? Or are you buying, you're building the equipment that we talked about depreciating. So a lot of it is, you know, setting up that team, and setting up that team that you can talk to, and that they're going to be honest with you. You know, they're not just going to say, oh, yeah, be great, go by that thing. Little Timmy is going to Case Western next year, when they need that underground for tuition, we got to think of something else. So really connecting to what their values are and what they're looking at, so that they can feel comfortable. And as an accountant, for me to not think of those things for clients just means it's going to come back at me, I'm gonna get that angry phone call, I want that angry phone call. So if I just do everything upfront, it's gonna be okay. Like, it's really - a lot of what I do is just trying to instill that sense of it's going to be okay. I had a mentor telling me once that everything's going to be okay. It's not going to be the Okay, you want, it's going to be okay. And so setting up those processes, setting up building that team, you know, and really, in your family to a lot of people. So I grew up in a family business. I knew when business was not going well, because my father at home wasn't the kindest person when things were not going well. So those are one of those things I think about too, with clients, what's that family dynamic? Like? How can I talk to you now like that one client I talked to about his feelings. After that, you know, he was able to go talk to his wife, because he sorted out what he was feeling, he also found out that it's okay to talk about your feelings. So having, building that process, you know, and getting the client to feel comfortable enough. And it's a process for myself, like, part of my job is getting a client to feel comfortable enough that they're going to talk to me about what's going on. Rather than feeling that shame of not being in the right place, I'm not doing the right thing, talk to my parents, and they're like you should have, you should have just gone to the hospital and worked there. You know, talking through these things, especially, I mean, we're dealing with change makers. So the path is not easy. Because everyone's going to pass. And that's, that's a system I don't get, like, pine to med school and having a school tell you where you're going like that. So,

Jennifer Wenzel  33:07  

take the approach of holistically, looking at how finances not only affect your business, but your entire life, and you try to help your client build a goal to make their life work with them and their family and their needs as well as their financials. That's

Derrick Espadas  33:25  

yeah, fine. Money. Money is such a weird thing. So if you're doing well, you have no problem telling people how well you're doing. Instead of last year, it did not go well. You're not telling people Oh, hey, I lost 50 grand last year. Right? It's very personal. It's very shameful. And so a lot of times, you know, I've had clients that don't tell me things, which is weird, because I'm looking at their books, I've seen them, but they don't want to talk about and

Landy Miyake  33:58  

yeah, and that's something I'm going to piggyback off of kind of what Jennifer said, it's amazing because we just think alike but we we like express it different sometimes but we're still on the same wavelength but but I was gonna have mentioned that whole you take a holistic approach with your clients, but even you know, one step you know, farther or deeper, you know, is that you actually it sounds like take you know truly the functional medicine approach in with your clients in that you do search for the root cause of what is going on and you do you know, you take the approach in whatever way that person show up for them. For example, you know, your your gentleman client there who is having some stuff feelings, you know, of family stuff, and you were able to have that conversation and get to that root cause. And also along with that, you know, money is very emotional. You know, a lot of people don't necessarily have that mindset. But as I've, you know, learned a little bit more about personal finance and money and things throughout the years. That's part of why, you know, I think that people feel that shame and, you know, embarrassment, or what have you is that emotional, whatever emotional connection that they have with that money. And so that's a whole other sort of ball of stuff right? there

Jennifer Wenzel  35:31  

who are like caregivers, at their heart, like our functional medicine clients, I know, many people who are in the heart based business arena, who feel a lot of guilt and shame about charging for what they do, even though I mean, of course, we have to, we're not going to have a business, if we don't have income, if we don't charge our patients and our clients, you know, for what we're doing. But it can be a very hard emotional block, to overcome the thought of trying to make a profit off of other people's health. That's got to be one of the toughest things that you might encounter is some of those underlying emotions around money and earning.

Derrick Espadas  36:10  

Yeah, no, it's definitely something that happens a lot. Because you, you have these people that want to change the world for the better. And that's beautiful. And that's great. But we don't, I always say we have a disconnect with our value system. Right? Like we don't, so my wife was a social worker, we don't pay our social workers, right. That's us. And that's, that's some of the research I'm working on right now is like, dynamics between doctors and social workers, and who should really be leaders in that. And we give doctors a lot of money, and they deserve it, because they've spent a lot of money. But they're not necessarily great with humans. So that's great. Leaders, social workers, specifically manage resources and people. Managers, specifically manage resources or people. So they're great managers, are we, I, it's something I come more from an education background, I'd love teaching, but it's the same thing. They're like, I should only accept this much money. And quite frankly, I've heard it too from education, like administration. Oh, so you're just going to abandon the kids? Oh, I don't want to ask for money. And so it's that weird place of like, I would like a nice life. not asking for much. But now I have to caretake for everyone. So now I feel guilty. And people play that card, too. So really, you know, in that process of setting up a process, you have to decide like, what's the price point? When do I say no, again, networking, I'm huge on networking, there's, there's organizations that will help pay a bill? You know,

Jennifer Wenzel  38:00  

For people who can't afford for example? Yeah,

Derrick Espadas  38:03  

though, I mean, one of them in one of my networking groups, they pay for it, they just finished paying for someone who couldn't afford the rent, because they're having heart surgery. So it's, it's gonna be up to the individual person to find out again, back to that vision, like, what is it that you want to do? Now, sometimes this is the kind of a business school cop out. But it's the whole Well, if we don't make money and have a business, and how are we going to employ other people. And now, if you, which is a legitimate reason, if you really feel now, if I hear it from some huge corporation, I roll my eyes. But we talk about that a lot of like, really, and I'm very happy with my company, supporting strategies and some of the other franchises that run supporting strategies. We actually did a survey of what the top values, and the top value that came from across the country was employing others. That and that blew me away. This organization that I work with, everyone's cool is to provide for other people. And again, going to that accounting thing, like that's not what you think about when you think about counting, we think of Ebenezer Scrooge and

Jennifer Wenzel  39:23  

pinch those pennies. Yes. single cent that you don't have to.

Derrick Espadas  39:27  

Yeah. And it's like, and there's people like that but and that's how come when you're finding those partners find the good ones are out there. Like I know it's easy to get overwhelmed by what we hear on the news, but there are good business people out there. Sometimes it takes a little looking for them, ask around to find out who has a great reputation, not just you know, oh, I kind of know someone you know, I've been working with so and so for 10 years. I love them. You know to find these people, they're out there.

Jennifer Wenzel  39:58  

And that's the vibe because they might love them, because they give them every possible cent, or they might love them because they work from a values basis and try to, you know, come from a mindset of generosity and growth, who knows right?

Derrick Espadas  40:12  

up with people I work with, because sometimes I love them is why? Oh, because they're nice. I can be nice for five minutes or an hour.

Landy Miyake  40:25  

Yeah, so I'm just trying to put all the pieces together for us here. So the first step sounds like they need to sit down and figure out, you know, their vision, their goals, you know, the why and all that men that will allow the strategy kind of to unfold, right, and the approaches that they're going to be taking. And then the second step that you would say is very important in those very early stages of forming the business is finding those trusted partners for your accounting team, your legal team, etc. So that, you know, they can have all of those, you know, guardrails in place, so to speak, and insurance, and that way, they're protected there. Because when I asked you about, like a recommendation, right, if that if they should really seriously consider outsourcing accounting, bookkeeping, like right out the gate, like you didn't have, you know, absolutely, yes, or absolutely no, I mean, even decision is going to be based on their vision, the size of their team, etc, etc. Because I mean, at the end of the day, it's still, you know, the money is finite, right. So they still are going to have to find the money somewhere. But if they do see that saving themselves, not just say, two to five hours a week ran, you know, but also like you had beautifully demonstrated by this whole, oh logo or pseudo at like, 10 at night, right? Because we really can't put a price on time for peace of mind, you know, etc, etc. Yeah, I was just trying to kind of summarize, like, the different steps that you know, because it's not going to be always like, a black and white solution or a cookie cutter solution, because everyone's priorities are gonna be different, or their values, and obviously, their budget is going to be different. But starting from that place of vision, having someone like you who support them in their business growth, their strategy, as a human, you know, is all going to factor in to, to when they do that, and to what extent Oh,

Derrick Espadas  42:47  

absolutely. And, you know, I think, along with that, you know, some of the research coming out of here, Case Western, there's a very well known professor that I get to study on it named Richard Boyatzis. And he's one of the ones that taught me to start with division. He's big on that. One of the things that comes out of his research is, you know, we're talking goals in which we usually get the SMART goals, things like that, never like that. Goals don't work. Because their goals, like I can do my goal, set it aside and say, I have goals, though I didn't meet it, connecting emotionally to that vision, seeing what your life wants to be, what you want your life to be, is the motivating factor. So that if you have a vision of where you want your life to go, you're more likely to follow it as opposed to a goal and goals can be boring. And I know they're supposed to be quantitative. And I'm an accountant. I want quantitative, but like, I want to make a million dollars. But how, like, do you want to steamroll everyone? Or do you want to do good for the world? And in functional medicine, there just seems to be this path of people who want to do good and make a positive impact. Now, I still think the money's just what we're going through historically, learning how to change these processes, learning how to change the minds of people. I know, in my own research, we talked to people about healthcare, and they're like, We hate the health care system. And then we present it, choices of how to change it, and they're like, don't change the healthcare system. So there's obviously some work to be done. But, you know, we can find these financial models and how we can come up with these ideas of how to maximize what we're doing. And so they can be profitable to the level that you're that you want that aligns with your vision and your happiness, and that you can really think at the end of the day, you know, look in the mirror and go, Yeah, that's the person I want to be I'm so happy that I'm doing what I'm doing. You know, because that's really, I mean, at least for myself, that's kind of the big goal of like, am I going to be happy with myself at the end of the day?

Jennifer Wenzel  44:58  

So if our functional medicine and other holistic health care providers watching into this live stream or recording want to work with someone like you who actually cares about their goals, their visions of the person they want to be when it comes to accounting, which is absolutely revolutionary in my mind, how can they how can they find you? How can they get a hold of you there.

Derrick Espadas  45:19  

So the easiest way is to go ahead and email me which is just d as Baba said, supporting strategy.com, you can do a search for supporting strategies Tucson, I pop up and my phone number is area code 520-379-3180. I am unfortunately kind of known for not answering my phone, email, it usually works best. I've also learned like if I have to concentrate or else I never get anything done. But if you do call me, leave a message. We'll chat. I always say the first hour is free. Like I want to learn about your business. We don't do a financial transaction, I walk away, you know, hopefully meeting someone that's awesome. And also learning so I can help the next person. So yeah, let's let's just connect and talk and figure out how we can help each other because I'm going to be stronger if life works out for you. And I believe in reciprocity, it'll all come around. It'll all be okay.

Jennifer Wenzel  46:18  

Thank you so much, that we've had a wonderful time and the many laps. Thank you so much for you and your lovely pink tie gracing webinars, but they they're

Landy Miyake  46:34  

counting could be so fun. It can be fun.

Derrick Espadas  46:39  

People, right, right. It's just like learning anything else. And that's, that's the once we can realize that we can do things. I think that's the big thing that we kind of have in our head. Accounting is complicated, and it can be just doing it. Just do it and hire someone.

Landy Miyake  47:01  

To help make it easy. Exactly. Exactly. Well, thank you so much for your time. We wish you continued success on your ever expanding academic journey. Yes. Cleveland Clinic for us.

Derrick Espadas  47:18  

Yes, I will. I will. I feel like I need to go there. And especially after hearing all the awesome stories from people today that I need to go over there and thank them they need to be thanked because everyone is just so appreciative of a feeling okay, like just that feeling of like that bad medical things are happening but I can still walk away. Okay. And that's amazing. I think that's beautiful.